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Transcript
Marla: [00:00:00] Welcome to our Practice Growth podcast, Jason. It's such a pleasure to have you here today.
Jason: Thank you. I'm stoked to be here.
Marla: And we know each other for a while now. We actually connected over your work on growing high-performance teams, um, and I even got to be at your dissertation and, and watch you defend yourself.
So, so excited to talk about that today and have all of our listeners learn more about what you're doing around high-performing teams. Um, but before we get into that, would love to know a little bit more about yourself, your background, and what you are doing today.
Jason: Okay. So I am excited to be here, and I love talking about all things high performance and looking at ways we can help prevent burnout and increase engagement in, in the physical therapy industry.
So my background, so I'm the weirdo who knew what he wanted to do in high school, so I, I had been interested in PT since I was 17, and had, um, started off my journey in a small rural community hospital on the Big Island of Hawaii. So I had some hospital experience, mostly outpatient, but a little bit of inpatient and, and home health as well.
And then I ended up in Southern California and opened up a medically based fitness center for a hospital system there, and then that led into starting my first business. So I had an outpatient PT business focused on sports and ortho in Southern California, and had that for five years, and then sold that and moved to Lake Tahoe, where I live now, and, uh, [00:01:30] worked for a hospital system there for 10 years, and actually made a pivot and moved out of healthcare to work on developing, helping businesses develop high-performing teams.
And then during COVID, we- I pulled the, uh, the band back together and got together with some of my old teammates and, and we jumped back into private practice. So I've been... I started PT Revolution five years ago, and we have two locations now, one in South Lake Tahoe and one in Truckee, and, uh, we've been going full steam ahead.
Marla: Wow, what a, what a nice background. I mean, you've been a clinician to a clinic owner to a coach, back into the medical and health wellness field, back into a clinician. Um, would love to hear your perspective from going from that role of actually leading teams to owning teams. What was your perspective and change going into being an owner and leading a team?
Jason: So I've, I've always migrated into leadership roles. So even my first job as a PT, I, I moved and took a clinical director role in the first year. So a year out of PT school, I became a director. And, um, so even when I wasn't intending to, and then when I was in the hospital system, the same thing. And, and, um, it-- with-- that's just always been where I've gone to.
And, uh, and I love, I love building teams and the impact that you can have, the exponential impact you can have by elevating others so then they can help take care of the patients that we serve. And, uh, and then the ownership side was just a natural progression. So I knew I always wanted to have my own practice.
My dad was an entrepreneur, and I grew up in, uh, in [00:03:00] retail. He had a hardware store, and so I loved, I, I just loved the customer interaction, and that was the part I was excited about with PT. But I also knew I wanted to be able to have control, make decisions, and do things the way that I thought they should be done.
And, um, and fortunately, I've had, uh, a lot of great partners. I've, I've, I've always done it with partners. I love the collaboration. I think we truly come up with better outcomes when we have that diversity of, of thought and ideas and experiences. And, um, and so, yeah, I've been lucky enough to have some success and, and do some good things and build some great teams.
Marla: And th- that's actually a, a great reason why a lot of people do become owners, is because they see what they wanna change, they see what they wanna make be- better and different, and they get the full capability to do that- Yeah ... and to own their team.
Jason: To own, yeah.
Marla: Uh, so going into that world, what surprised you most about teams, leading teams, not just your own, but also as you were coaching and looking at other teams?
What were some surprises or challenges that you recognized that really led to your bigger research and, and what you ended up getting into?
Jason: Probably just how, how much nurturing a team needs. Even when you have a lot of high performers and, and you've got really great people, there, you still have to tend to them continuously and, and frequently and, um, and intentionally.
And I think that's the thing, that just because you have great people on your team doesn't mean you can just let them go. Uh, they need to know that you care. They want, they [00:04:30] want direction, they want feedback, and, um, and that's one of the things w- when, I know we'll talk about my research in a little bit, but one of the things that these high-performing PT leaders talked about was just how often, the frequency of reiterating, whether it's the vision, the mission, whether it's feedback or recognition, just h- just how we have to do it over and over and over again for people to really hear it.
Because they're so busy doing their jobs, they're, uh, sometimes we just don't get it the first time, the second time, the fifth time. So it may be the thousandth time that they, they finally hear it, and they're like, "Oh, okay. Yeah. That, it clicks now." So I think that's been one of the, um, the things that can be hard at times, and also it's, it's humbling because you're like, "I've already been doing this."
You know, like, "What? I don't know how many times I have to tell you," but that's, in, in leadership you just have to realize that it's an infinite game, and you just have to keep, keep going, keep going. There's, there's not a, an end point to it.
Marla: And you really got so involved in wanting to learn more about that, that you actually ended up going back to school- Yeah
and do dissertation and a PhD. So tell me a little bit about that, your research, and what stemmed you to really get into that re- as your research study?
Jason: So I'd come up with a framework on my own just through my own experience, and then just being a, a student of leadership and just, I consumed for, for years and years and years.
I would just read every leadership book I could, uh, looking at personal and professional development books, podcasts, courses, [00:06:00] everything I could. And one of the things when I was l- looking at my own practice, my own successes and my own failures, because I think I learned a lot more from the many failures that I've had, is that there was either a lack of clarity, the team was not feeling connected, whether it was to each other, to me as a leader, or to the purpose of the organization Uh, or there was really poor communication.
So those three things are what I distilled down over just my own experiences, was that clarity, connection, communication. So I started looking at those, and I looked at those where I could use them diagnostically and see, okay, where's-- what's breaking down? Something's not going right, and there was always one of those or, or a combination of those.
And I also could use it as an accelerant because I could say, "Okay, here's where we're missing. We're not-- where we've lost this connection, whether it's to each other, we're not deeply connected to our patients, our purpose," whatever it may be, and then, okay, what do we do to fix it? So that was, so that was this, this framework that's now called the High Performance Team Effect, was this construct that I used, and then I formalized it.
And then when I decided to go back and get my doctorate in organizational leadership We were looking at, uh, at different frameworks that we could use to study. And we actually didn't go into it looking at this. I knew I wanted to put some research behind it, but I wasn't, like, dead set on using this for my dissertation.
And I did... We- we- they call them [00:07:30] thematic dissertations. And so I had two peers that used- had the same research questions at the end, and, um, but they have their own populations. So they both did theirs in military contexts. And so we started looking at these different frameworks, and none of them seemed sticky.
And that was the thing that I always wanted, was that mine was simple and sticky because there's so many-- so much great leadership doctrine out there, especially in military contexts, so we were drifting towards that. And but they just weren't things that people would remember and then apply, and that was one of the things I really wanted.
And then my colleagues loved that it was so simple: clarity, connection, communication. And so we finally decided it. It was the first time I, I did the, my doctorate through UMass Global, and it's the first time that they had anybody use a framework that was, that was a novel framework or a conceptual, conceptual framework.
And, uh, so they allowed us to do it though, which was really cool. And so we all dove into that. So we had, uh... So we did mine on, on physical therapy leaders. One did it in military context with flag officers, so three and four-star generals. And the other did it on military leaders that have moved into the civilian sector or in leadership positions.
So, um, so then, yeah, so I've got some interesting data from that and, uh, and it helped solidify and show that these are really meaningful and powerful things for leaders that are building and maintaining [00:09:00] high-performing teams.
Marla: And as you said, you learned from your own success and failures. You know, you went through many businesses, successful and, and maybe some non-successful.
So you realized that people were the culprit of a successful business, right?
Jason: Yeah. Yeah. And that's always been my focus, is the people part of it, and knowing... And, and we still have our KPIs and our metrics, and we have to run a, a viable business. But the, I, the, the people part of it. That's why I went into PT instead of going into medicine, was I love the people part of it, and that's the part I still love about patient care.
It's just the people, and I love the team side of that, and I get that same fulfillment from leading teams. I do with helping lead patients through their plan of care and their journey back to, to whatever their goals have been. And, uh, yeah, so that's been... It, it, it's been, it's been a fun journey
Marla: And, and in rehab, the service is the people, right?
Like, that is what we're giving to our patients is the people who's treating them. So would love to hear more about your high-performance team effect. Um, dive into a little bit more exactly what the clarity communication and, um- Connection ... connection is.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah, so clarity, so it all starts off with clarity.
Is there a clear vision? Is there a clear mission for, for the organization? And it's, it's amazing, when I, when I do talks, I'll talk to business owners and, and so often I say, "Who has a, you know, who has a vision? What's your vision statement?" Or, "Who has the vision for their business?" Everybody raises their hand.
"Who can recite their, their vision?" And most of the hands go down, and same thing with the mission. And so [00:10:30] one of the things there is, is it s- is it simple? Is it memorable? And is it meaningful? And if you can't recite it, and if your team doesn't know it or at least know it pretty closely, then it's, it's really...
it's not clear enough. It's not simple, and it's not meaningful enough. So that's one thing is it starts there. Like, where are you going? That really... that's, that's the roadmap. And then within clarity as well, we look at roles and responsibility. Is it really clear who is doing what and when? How your performance is gonna be measured, and then what the follow-up looks like.
And then are individual and organizational goals aligned? So does your success align with the organization's success and vice, and vice versa? And then we also look at, too, really, like, the fulfillment piece with high-performing teams. It's not just about success. We're looking at fulfillment. So look at outcomes, impact, success, and then fulfillment.
And I think so often when we're looking at teams, 'cause it's so much easier to measure the, the quantitative pieces, the, the KPIs and the things that really, that, you know, that, uh, pay the bills, that we forget about that last p of ful- piece of fulfillment, and that's such a key in, in helping to prevent burnout and to boost engagement.
And then those... if you have an engaged workforce, like you guys do here- Yeah ... it's amazing that, uh, then they will drive those outcomes. They'll drive those KPIs. And, uh, so they all fit together and, and, um Yeah, so that's, so that's the clarity side. I can-- This is gonna take all the time just going through these.[00:12:00]
Yeah, so then connection, connection me and I mentioned it's to people and to purpose. So are you connected to the other people on your team? Do you feel connected to your supervisor, the people above you? Do you feel connected to the purpose of the organization? Do you-- Is there a shared purpose that everybody's buying into?
And is there a deep trust and, and sort of psychological safety? Can people speak up if they feel differently? That's a huge piece in, in high-performing teams. And then, uh, resources and, and recognition. Do people on there, are they connected to the resources that they need to be successful? Do they have the tools to do their job?
And then, again, do they feel like they can ask their boss if they don't?
Marla: Yes.
Jason: And, uh, and then does the boss feel connected? Because th- can they have that, this ties back into the communication piece we'll talk about next, but can they have an open communication about what that looks like if they, if they're not gonna get that resource and still bu- and still have that trust there?
And then recognition. Recognition is huge. How often are we recognizing people? How are we recognizing them? How do we individualize it? Some people love public recognition, some people absolutely hate it. Uh, multimodal communication and re- for recognition as well is, is huge So those are a lot of the, the foundational pieces of connection, and then the other piece is leveraging diversity.
So looking at how do we, how, how do we m- have an outcome that is greater than the sum of the parts? And that is, we do that through f- getting people's different thoughts, ideas, experiences pointed [00:13:30] together to just collect, get that collective wisdom from, from the team, and we always come up with better ideas.
And that- that's why I've always had partners because I know I think I could do a pretty good job on my own. I don't want to, and it's so much better, and I love being challenged. I love being pushed. So that's, um... So those are the first two, and then the last one really, and so I think that the communi- or the connection is really the, the vehicle, and then communication is the catalyst.
It's really the fuel of the high-performance team effect. And we look at is, is there a candid and transparent communication, uh, within the team? And it, are leaders being receptive and reflective? And, uh, and then team members too, all look at these, and then follow-up and feedback, and I know we're gonna dive into that in a little bit because those were some interesting findings in the study, especially around those.
Um, but are, is follow-up frequent? Is it consistent? How are, how are we following up? And then feedback. Is feedback going both ways, not just from the supervisor down to the employee or the team members, but then is it going back up the chain? And then ultimately, is it, is the communication effective? Are you getting the results that you want?
Are people doing what you want them to do and need them to do? And then is it efficient? Do you have to ask people multiple times to do the same thing over and over before action or results are found? So that's the not-so-short answer, but clarity, connection, communication, and those sub-domains, and we dove into all of those with both the physical therapy leaders and then the military [00:15:00] leaders as well.
Marla: Wow. So I mean, uh, easy, simple. You broke it down obviously a little bit more complex when you break it down, but very easy, simple to remember. Um, sounds like a good model to be able to implement into your teams. Tell me, as you started to research that model, what were your findings, uh, and what do you really recommend as this was the, the takeaway of our research?
Jason: Okay. Yeah. So the-- like most leadership research, there's no shortage Mm-hmm ...uh, of, uh, of incredible findings. They're all very similar. Like these, these things, we just need to do them. And Warren Bennis had a quote that, that said, "Nothing has been studied so much to know so little about leadership." And meaning that we, we keep studying it, and we keep finding out pretty much the same things, but we're not doing anything with it.
And that's where, what I'm hoping that, that people take away from this is, even if you don't remember any of those things I just listed on underneath clarity, connection, communication, remember clarity, connection, communication, because you can kind of figure out what's, what's within those, each of those core competencies.
So the, the things that we found, I'll, I'll go into the, the kind of surprise findings- Yeah ...because the leaders really felt like all these things were very important One of the ones that was a surprise finding was that follow-up really is the biggest driver of trust on a team. So when people aren't-- when leaders aren't following up with their teammates, when teammates aren't following up with each other, it erodes trust.
And when they are, when it's consistent, it builds credibility, and it builds [00:16:30] trust. So that was a, a big... We thought it was gonna be more about, uh, about transparency and having open, honest communication, uh, but it was really about follow-up. The other interesting thing was that feedback was something that the high-performing leaders wanted a lot more of So they were off- they were almost universally yearning for more feedback from their teams.
And, and that was interesting for me because that's personally how I feel. Like, I'm, tell, give me, like give me more feedback. Tell me how I'm doing. What can I- what else can I do? Uh, so those were two really interesting ones. And then there's another one that we called the resource allocation gap, and what that was was that when in the, the quant- So this was a mixed method study.
In the qualitative side of the study, all of the, on, on the, with the PTs leaders, all the PT leaders said that, that resource allocation was very important. It's r- it was a really important thing. When on the quantitative side, when they rated it, it was much lower. So we dove into that. What we, what, uh, what we came up with was that they know that leaders know it's really important to provide resources, but then when they actually have to do it-
Marla: Mm
Jason: there's probably other things that factor into it, like what's the return on investment? How much is this going to cost? What's the time? Is it gonna get used? So, so, uh, so we called it the resource allocation gap because there's, there's, uh, [00:18:00] multifactorial issues that co- The, the, yeah, it's important, but then when they actually have to get down to it, they're running the business as well.
Yeah. Uh, so that was an, an interesting finding as well, and it'll be, it'll, it's gonna be fun to, and with, within my own business, we're looking at that, like, 'cause we are trying to provide the resources, the tools that people need to be successful. And then I think we see that even with our own practice that, like, okay, yeah, we'll get you this.
Well, wait a minute. How often are you gonna use it? And are you gonna keep using it three months down the road, six months down the road? So, so then it ties back into the follow-up, how we're gonna follow up to make sure that we have success.
Marla: Yeah. I'll stick with right there. That was amazing. Can you give us an example of a resource allocation where your teammates, maybe you saw a gap in a resource and they came to you, they wanted something, and then you guys had to sort of decide and make that hard decision is, is the investment worth the, the teammate resource request?
Jason: Yeah. So probably most recently we have, w- we, our environment is we work with mount athletes, and so we do sports performance testing. So our therapists who are doing the sports performance testing always want new toys and new tools and, and, uh, so we take it to the team and assess it and, and see, okay, well, what's the value of this?
And I think we just got a new white balance for one of our locations. And looking at, okay, how often are we doing this first? How do we-- do we intend to do it? And then what are the outcomes that we are gonna get from this? What's the [00:19:30] impact we wanna have? And, and then setting up expectations as well of, okay, how often?
So this is how often you said you think you're gonna use it, and then we're gonna follow up, and we're going to say, "Okay, we are using it this, this much, or we're not. What's going into it?" So trying to learn from each, each time that we do Invest in a new resource or get somebody something. And that's, and it's not, that wasn't a huge investment, but we still want to look at what does that track record look like if we're gonna make investments because some we can invest $200 for somebody and, and it's just as meaningful as if we invest $10,000 in something else that to the other person, that's what's meaningful to them.
So it's, it's very individual on what they value for their practice and what they think is going to help improve patient care and, and what they're passionate about too, like leaning into their strengths and, and their interests.
Marla: Yeah. Well, that's great. That's a great example. And, um, and I know you, you use a lot of the technology resources.
Uh, I know you're a Prompt user- Mm-hmm ... and, and we- we're always so grateful in the sense of how you see the value of some of those other, um, AI Scribe resources to help your clinicians not burn out too.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah. That's been huge. And that's, that's the, the, uh, uh, well, the most recent on the technology side, that's been huge.
I mean, our investment in Prompt has been priceless. But AI, especially this last week with the, the corner that the, the Sidekick on the mobile app has made, it [00:21:00] was b- amazing. With the... Now that we have the calendar, everything's going straight into the computer. It is... It, it's warmed my heart last week to see clinicians walking with their phones, dictating them.
They're getting their notes done while they're at work. And so that's been, uh, that's been a huge investment just in- Yeah ... that resource for our team. And then, and you guys just keep doing, making it better and better, which I, I really appreciate. That's ...
Marla: And going back to the high-performance team effects, so you've got your clarity, your communication, um, and your, um-
Jason: Connections.
Uh, connections. The one in the middle. Yeah. Connects them to- Yeah ... connects them all. I'll do that. Don't
Marla: worry. So going back to your high-performance team effect, your clarity, communication, and your connection, so how do you measure those? You know, now you've done the, the research. You understand the, the three pillars.
Uh, you understand how it affects and where you really, what your findings were. How do you measure those, and how do you really know you have that high-performing team?
Jason: So it's, I, I'd say overall, it's a, it's a bit qual- It's mixed methods, again. Yeah. Uh, so we use the employee NPS, and so we deploy that on a regular basis and, and get feedback, which is great because then there's...
And we, and we also add some other questions to solicit this honest, anonymous feedback, and we get really good information from that. So that's how, pri- on the quantitative side, that's how we measure it. And then we meet with our employees regularly. We also set up systems that if they, if, if somebody reports to me, they can also talk to one of my, one of the other business partners.
Like it's like find somebody. If you don't feel like you can talk to [00:22:30] me about something, find somebody, another owner who can, and we'll have those conversations with each other and then bring it back around. So we try to set up a safety net where people feel that they have a resource to, to, or somebody in, in leadership that they can speak to.
And, um, and then I think just looking at outcomes That we have all the, the business KPIs that are going to be reflective of how well the, the team is doing. And then on the, the qualitative side, like, you kind of feel it. You walk in here and you can feel that this is a high-performance environment and you...
A, a great team, the, the connection, the shared purpose. And when it's ... And, and that'll change at times for every business. You're going to be just hitting everything in stride, and then you start to notice that we're a little off track or things, you're losing some momentum. And so being really aware of that is, is critical for high-performing teams and high-performance leaders to identify that as soon as you can, and then dive in.
Use clarity, connection, communication as a diagnostic. What's going on? What's, what are we missing here? And sometimes it's not the organizational issue. Sometimes it's something personal, and that's okay, but it's still important to address it because if you don't, then people feel like you don't care.
Even if you don't know You know, it's human nature. We feel like people oftentimes should, should care even if they don't know what's going on. So it's, it's that empathetic, compassionate side of leadership you have to tap into. And, and I'm fortunate enough to have two other business partners and, and it- that, [00:24:00] that we all complement each other really well.
So I'm more of the high energy visionary guy. Got a very pragmatic, more emotionally intelligent partner and then, and the other one who is more of the empathetic, loving, caring one. So it's a great part- partnership from a leadership side to lean into each other's strengths, and then also call each other out on, uh, what's going well or if we're, if we're missing the mark, and then really to see what's going on with, with our team because that's -- each of us will connect with people differently, and each of us will recognize when s- if somebody's going off track or if the team, if there's -- if we're, we're diverging a little bit and need to readjust.
Marla: Yeah. And can you give me an example? You said obviously there's KPIs and metrics. Can you example of you've maybe implemented this after you did your research, implemented it into your practice, and what KPI or metric did you see improve or change that you feel directly related to the high performing team
Jason: effect?
Um, I, y- I've, I've implemented this from before, like, since we started this business, so it's hard to say. Uh, we've -- and we've had very little turnover. I think one of the big things too is, is looking at turnover. Turnover. And we've had, we'd have -- we've had zero professional staff turnover, uh, with our PTs.
We have 29 employees now, and we've had one-- In five years, we've had one, one person that's, that we needed to free up his future. Um, so that is, I think turnover is, is one of the, the biggest things as well as is employee NPS scores.
Marla: Yeah. And turnover, [00:25:30] burnout, those are all very big hot topics in the industry right now.
Obviously, if you want to be a growing practice, you need to keep your providers and clinicians and, and employees while getting new ones.
Jason: Yeah.
Marla: How do you know in the high performance team effect when it's somebody who's either not in the right fit or you have to coach them out, um, and how do you utilize or do that?
Jason: So I think that that's the communication piece is what is, what's -- are you following up on things if there is a problem with, with performance, and if you identify something that's going on, h- or what is, what are you having those c- conversations, and is it very clear, and is it very transparent? And so that's just a That, that process and then letting them know is what those expectations are.
"So here's what I see, here's what we expect, and there's this gap, and do you know what, uh, is that clear? And do you know how to get from, from this place where you are now to what the expectation is? And if you don't, here's what we can help you with. And, uh, and then here are the expectations." So just really setting, setting the stage and making it clear.
It's... Letting people go is never, never fun, and it should never be a surprise, though, to people either. I think it should be a path that you are coaching them up, uh, and until you're coaching them out and, uh, or moving them out. 'Cause once, once it, it happens, you need to make it, make it happen fast. But they should know along the way that, okay, here's, here's what's not, not meeting the mark.
And, [00:27:00] um, and then yeah, they're either gonna, they're gonna step up or you get to help them step out.
Marla: So the communication should always be there, as you said. So if, if it's a surprise to them, they have no idea, sometimes you might have to look in the mirror and look at your leadership team and the actual leader.
Mm-hmm. So let's say, how do you use the high-performance team effect on yourself as a leader and find, make sure that you know you, from the top down, really are doing this correctly?
Jason: Yeah. And, and the leaders always have a role in it. If any- everybody in my organization, if they're not succeeding, there's some role that I have in it, even if I'm barely even connected to them.
Like, there's something that I could do to either improve their performance, uh, or that I'm not doing that's, that possibly is impeding their, their performance. So that's where having that, that just reflective time and, and when we talk about the communication side, that receptive and reflective communication.
Reflective communication is oftentimes for the high-performance leader, too, just looking at, okay, what am, what am I doing? Can I take a step back? And, and how, how well am I communicating? And, and then also using your peers. I- I'm fortunate to have them in my business. If you are a solopreneur or in a leadership role where you don't have partners like that, then create a trusted council.
Have, have people you can bounce ideas off of and that will give you honest feedback. Uh, and we... People want to be supportive. [00:28:30] They want to just tell you nice things. You need to find people who are gonna be honest with you. Uh, and, uh, and so that's a, a huge piece of being an effective leader is, is finding those people who can help you be better.
And, uh, and then one, I think having the humility as a leader to know that, that, that you'll always have, that e- like, I always have a role in the problem, and a lot of leaders don't want to admit that.
Marla: I hear
Jason: that. Uh, and it's hard, too, at times, too, and especially when you take a lot of pride on caring about your teams and driving high performance, and then when you realize that you're a bigger part of the problem or you are the problem, that's a, can be a bitter pill to swallow.
So, um, but, but knowing that, that you're going to learn from it and grow from it, I think is the, the biggest piece. So always being a learner and wanting to grow from your mistakes, and just know that every, every time you fail, as long as you learn from it, you know, you just fail forward fast and be better the next time, that's gonna be the, is a cardinal trait of a high-performing leader.
Marla: So are you asking yourself repetitively, "Am I being clear? Um, am I connected? Am I connecting to my teammates? Uh, and, and am I really focused on communication style?" I think that's a, a great self-reflection. And is there maybe, um, do you recommend Leaders up and down, right? Like a 360 being scored on that, the three Cs.
Do you have any or put any of that in place?
Jason: Yeah. So I, I love 360s and then, and even just doing a, a, a workshop basically with your team about, uh, [00:30:00] uh, with those, those three Cs. And we do every quar- every month we do a high-performance team effect meeting. And then so one month it's clarity, the next month, month it's connection, the next month it's, it's communication.
And it could be, clarity could just be talking to the team about what do you need clarity on? And then you just have to stop talking and let them, 'cause nobody wants to talk at first, and then people are like, "Hey, I heard this," or, uh, "Can you clarify this?" And then it gets the ball rolling. And connection, it might be just a connection activity with the team.
Like nothing about work, it's just how do we connect at a deeper level that's not, yeah, and it's, at work we're so busy with all the other things, so how do we just take an hour and just connect deeply? It can be a fun activity or just a really important connection activity. And a communication we may work on what communication do people need.
We could work on communication skills. I used to teach communication workshops. So how do we improve the, the power of our communication and clean it up, make it more professional, make it more impactful? So we, so we'll focus on those throughout the year, and then, and there you can definitely, we get a lot of feedback from on the, the other questions that we send out with employee NPS, and that'll be specific to some of those, and, you know, those sub-domains in there.
And, and then, so it's, we're not doing formal 360s, but essentially we're getting that information 'cause we're getting it from all levels. And then, uh, and then there'll be times too where we'll say, "Okay, how's your, you know, rate your boss [00:31:30] and tell us, like, be honest." Be honest. And that's the, that's the hardest thing, too, even though I feel like we've created a, in our organization, a, a high-trust environment, and there is a, a great deal of psychological safety People still have a hard time telling you what you're doing wrong, and, um, and that's the thing.
You just have to keep trying as a leader. It's like, "No, I want to know."
Marla: Yeah.
Jason: I just, that'd be something. Yeah. Like, I like to think I'm that great, but I know I'm not.
Marla: Well, and you said that one of your surprise findings were that your high-performing individuals wanted more feedback.
Jason: Yeah.
Marla: Where a lot of times we're always giving feedback to the one who is not performing well, who needs the feedback, but we forget the ones that are performing really well.
They're those eager ones for the feedback-
Jason: Yeah ...
Marla: uh, 'cause they wanna keep learning.
Jason: Yeah.
Marla: So that's a great takeaway point is continue to, on a monthly basis, put the, these three Cs in, focus on one C, talk about it, and make sure that you're getting feedback up and down- Mm-hmm ... and asking for it as well as receiving it-
Jason: Yeah
Marla: um, as a leader, a- and seeing how your, how your, uh, employees are actually experiencing your leadership and making sure you're really aligned on those three Cs and improving on them.
Jason: Yeah. And one of the things, too, that I found was I get so excited about all this stuff, and then I want to just do more and more and more.
As I try to hammer the three Cs into a meeting, and then one, in the last, the last couple years- well, actually, once we started researching it was when I realized that, okay, we have to slow down. Like, we just, just do [00:33:00] one
Marla: One. One at a time
Jason: It's been so much more effective. It's been great, and just to give the people time, because it does take, takes people time to come out of their shell a little bit and, and want to discuss it, or somebody has to break the ice, and then, and then everybody else jumps in.
And so we've, we've mined a lot of gold that way within our team.
Marla: Yeah.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Marla: And I really think just looking at the PT industry and the rehab industry at a whole, those three Cs apply. Just, I think therapists and clinicians are eager to say, "Clarity, what's my clarity here in the, in the realm of physical therapy and occupational therapy?
Like, where am I headed in this individual? Um, am I connected to the mission, and is the communication clear about, you know, are we, are we gonna make more money or not?" Yeah Like, what's going on there? So I think you can apply it not only in your small little teams, but in the bigger industry and making sure therapists still feel connected and not burn out and leave.
Jason: Yeah, and that's a, a big piece of, and a, a big piece of this that, with the research, was my interest in burnout. So I've been looking at burnout for years as well, and then really wanted to study that, and that was a piece that was unique to the, the PT side of this study versus the military side, was looking at how do we- can we prevent burnout?
And we know the symptoms of burnout in, in physical therapy are up as high as 50% of PTs experience them. They're not burning out because they don't find the work meaningful. So that's why we actually... Then there's a whole nother podcast, but where we're not seeing PTs truly burn out when you look at the, the [00:34:30] definition of, of burnout.
Marla: But
Jason: they're, they're becoming disengaged, or they're not enjoying the, the work as much because they're exhausted and because of all the, the hurdles we have to jump over. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and that's no fun either. So whether it's true burnout or whether it's disengagement, doesn't matter. Like, how do we make the, our work environments more fun, more engaging?
How do we allow people to do meaningful work and have fun doing it? Yeah. That's ultimately what it is. It's been my mantra for years, and I firmly believe that everybody should be doing that. And, and if you're not able to do that in the role that you're in, like, find where you can do that. Yeah.
Marla: And that's really, you know, Prompt is really working on making sure that we can give clinicians that meaningful work and taking the clarity and the resources.
What, what can we take away that's not meaningful so you can get to the meaningful, um, and the connection, how do we help you connect better with patients and not just be doing the busywork, be face to face with them- Yeah ... not be at, behind a computer writing notes. Um, so really applying that to our own technology, I think is a, a great process and theory that we will keep adopting.
Jason: Yeah, and as a leader, it's huge, too, because, I mean, having- Having a, a robust system like Prompt that's, that's managing the practice , I mean, it frees up so much more time for a leader like me who wants to focus on what a lot of people call the soft stuff, the humans- the human side of it, that I don't have to spend as much time diving into [00:36:00] a lot of the, the data and the metrics and stuff because I can just get it.
Uh, so it- that's- that part is huge to have a system behind you that then frees you up to you as a, the high performing leader to focus on your team. But so it gives the leader the resources, gives the team the resources, and then so it frees up time for everybody to, for the, the therapists to spend more time with their, the patients, our administrative staff to do more meaningful work, which for us is really still about connecting with patients and then allowing them to do the other things of their job too, to fill the schedule or whatever it is.
And, uh, and then the leaders to focus on the things that really matter, which our teams need to be number one to us, so then our patients can be number one to them.
Marla: Yeah. And if you focus on that, the business grows because that's the most important kind
Jason: of it. Yep.
Marla: That's great. Um, can you give us any good books?
You said you, you read a lot of books, a lot of leadership books before doing your own dissertation and research. Can you give us any good books that you would recommend?
Jason: Gosh, yeah, it's always hard to, to distill it down. So one of my favorite books is, is Drive by Dan Pink.
Marla: Oh, ah, yes.
Jason: And I love... And, and that's all based off of the research, self-determination theory of, of DC and Ryan, and, uh, I love that.
Autono- how he dist- distills it down into such a way that it's, it's memorable. It's autonomy, mastery, and purpose. And, uh, so it's, it's taking this, this amazing theory and then making it memory. So again, simple and sticky. I love that if you... And then also h- his, the, his TED Talk on it is amazing as [00:37:30] well.
And, uh, another one too that, well, his TED Talk made me think of this, is Shawn Achor, The Happiness Advantage, and it's a great book. His TED Talk is remarkable because his humor comes through. And so it's, it's very memorable. And, um, so that's a good one as well. And then there's a book, and I'm, I'm, I'm blanking on the author's names, that, uh, it just, from a while, it was a while ago, and it's called Patients Come Second.
And I love the book for two reasons. One is that they beat me to that title because I was working on a book called Patients Come Second. And then I found it, and, um, and I read it, and I was like, "These guys beat me to it. They did exactly what, what I wanted to do." And it just talks about how leaders need to focus on their team.
If you make your team number one, they can make, they can make your patients number one. And, uh, because in, in patient care, and I was in a world in the hospital system where everything was patients come first, patients come first, patients come first, what I started seeing was that the teams felt like they came second, that they weren't as important.
Marla: Yeah.
Jason: And, um, so that was the, the eye-opener for me. I was like, wow, it's amazing how this messaging is, is not having the intended effect, and it's really breaking down the culture. And, um, so... And, and I wish I could remember the author's name, but it's a, it's a good read.
Marla: Building high-performance teams is your patients come second, and your team comes first- Absolutely
and you're [00:39:00] empowering them to lead others, and those are patients.
Jason: So-
Marla: I love that. That's a, that's a great takeaway. Um, and again, any, any last takeaways that you wanna... I know that was a fantastic one. But any last takeaways for our audience, just as they are now either trying to be a high-performance teammate, a high-performance leader, or an owner
Jason: of a company?
I... The biggest thing is remember those three things, clarity, connection, communication. If there's nothing else you take away from today, remember clarity, connection, communication. If your team is thriving, you are probably nailing it in those. And if you review it, you'll see what you're doing right and then do more of those things.
And then see what other, what, what other elements you can add to add fuel to that fire. And, uh, and when you're missing the mark- Use it as a diagnostic. Where are you lacking clarity? Where are you n- not connected? And then what's your communication like?
Marla: Fantastic. I love it. Thank you so much. This was such a valuable, uh, episode and podcast.
Thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge and your research and what you're doing in your own world and industry, because I know you've been in a few, not just healthcare, um, and even pulling in the military. So thank you so much for all of your-- sharing all of your knowledge with us today.
Jason: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, and thanks to everything Prompt is doing for our industry. It's, it's revolutionizing healthcare, and it's making our jobs as, as leaders and as clinicians a lot easier. So thank you so much.